a 'mooh' point

clearly an IBM drone

Post WG4-meetings in Okinawa


Last week (week 4 of 2009) we had the first face-2-face meeting in SC34/WG4 on the Japanese island of Okinawa. Since there is quite a big overlap between the participants of WG4 and those of WG5, the two groups meet at the same time and place to minimize travel costs and time away.

Quite a lot of people had chosen to take the "small" trip to Okinawa, and at roll-call the first day, a total of 22 people sat around the table in the meeting room. Of these were 6 from ECMA and 14 represented various national bodies (of these were 3 employed by Microsoft)

How's that for full disclosure, eh?

The purpose of the meeting was to get started maintaining OOXML and to discuss what to do in the future. We were also to discuss the already submitted DRs and see what we could do about these.

One of the first things I realized on that morning was, that by participating in standardization in ISO (and from what I hear, also most other standardisation organisations) you need to accept following a certain number of rules. As it turns out, we are in no way free to fix problems in the spec, we are in no way free to make new additions of the spec etc. As it turns out, there are rules constraining all of these activities. So the project editor (Rex Jaeschke) took us on a lengthy trip down "ISO-regulation-lane". The idea was to give us all some knowledge of the rules and terms (as in 'nouns') used in the directives so that we would all be on the same, first page moving forward. The basis for the walk-through was a document prepared by the editor and it is available on WG4's website.


Quite a lot of DRs were submitted to WG4 before the meeting. I think the total number was about 25-30, and they ranged from fixing spelling errors to clarification of the text and schema changes. The first thing we discussed was how to categorize the DRs. The "buckets" were "defects" and "amendments" and how to distinguish between editorial defects and technical defects. We quickly agreed that focus should initially be to verify and aprove any DRs relating to decisions from Geneva that had not made it into the final text. ECMA also had quite a big batch of DRs submitted before the meetings, but since they were not submitted in time for everyone to look at them, we did not make any decisions about these - ECMA just went through them in detail and we discussed each of them.

Details we discussed were certainly of world-changing importance, such as the difference between the text fragments "nearest thousands of bytes" and "nearest thousand bytes", the allowed content of string-literals and intricate details of the xml:space-attribute in an XML-element based on the XML 1.0 specification. Still, it was quite entertaining and it was delightful to sit back and simply overhear the discussions of people that really know what they were talking about.

Comment collection form

ECMA has set up a comment collection form to submit DRs from interested national bodies. It has already been set to use by the Japanese national body and it seems to serve its purpose just fine. Hopefully it will enable us to improve data qualityof the incoming DRs. We gave feedback to the application to Doug Mahugh from ECMA and hopefully he will see to that the suggestions are implemented (especially mine!)


We discussed at length the concept of "openness" and how we should apply it to our work, and I will cover my feelings for this in detail in a top-post a bit later.

Last minute impressions

This was my second trip to Japan and I must say that I am getting more and more excited about it for every trip. The culture is fantastic and it is a good challenge to be in a part of the world, where you don't speak the language and is incapable of reading almost any signs. I did get a bit of "Lost in Translation"-feeling on my trip back (+40 hrs!), but it was really a good trip. Two thumbs up for the convener, Murata-san who showed us how a splendid host acts and shows their guests a great time.

All in all I also think we had some productive days on Okinawa. We managed to deal with quite a few DRs and to set up work-processes for the future and I am sure we will benefit in the near future of the work we did. It was also interesting to watch the "arm-wrestling" between the national bodies and ECMA. We were on the same page in most cases, but it was interesting to be part of the discussions where we were not. It will be interesting to see how this will evolve in the future. ISO is a bit different than, say, OASIS because of the involvement of national bodies. Where the basis for most of the groups in OASIS is "vendors", it is quite orthogonal to this in ISO where this concept does not really exist. Some of you may remember Martin Bryan's angry words at the plenary in Kyoto about vendor participation and "positions" vs. "opinions" and I am looking forward to take part in these discussions in WG4 as well as here.


Additional resources

Below are a couple of links that might be of interest to you

SC34 WG4 public website

SC34 website

(and for Okinawa-related activities)

Alex Brown's write-up about day 0, 1, 2 and 3-4 of the meetings

Doug Mahugh's summary of what took place

Pictures taken by the secretariat

Picture-stream from Doug Mahugh

Picture stream from Alex Brown

Picture stream from Jesper Lund Stocholm (me!)

Twitter stream from Doug Mahugh

Twitter stream from Alex Brown (notice the l33t-speek Twitter-tag Alex uses!)

Twitter stream from Jesper Lund Stocholm

Bonus for those of you waiting for the credits at the end of the movie:

The day I arrived I was met by Murata-san and Alex Brown in the lobby of the hotel. They were on their way to dinner at a restaurant called "Kalahaai" in the "American Village" of Naha. The dinner took place in a restaurant with live Japanese music from a group called "Tink Tink". Their music was really amazing. The last evening we went there again, and Shawn and I were listening completely baffled to the music and on-stage talks of the performers. It was an amazing experiance to sit in the restaurant not understanding a single word they said - and still not being able to stop listening to them.

(courtesy of Doug Mahugh)

And look at this picture. Thanks to Doug's tele/wide/fish-eye-whatever-lense on his camera, I look like an absolutely mad-/maniac man! No girls were hurt during this, I should point out.

(courtesy of Doug Mahugh)


Comments (5) -

Any significant defect reports we can expect to see in OOXML maintenance shortly ?

Could you describe an example on an item on which the NB's and Ecma disagree on ?

Some of the defect reports (and the responses from the project editor)
are available at the SC34/WG4 public web site.  More will come.  Stay

I can't believe it was just Dougs lense that made your hands so big


Seriuosly - I don't know what happened. I would say my hand size is "reasonable normal".


The hand proportions look about right to me, although the head seems a little bigger in person. Smile

Comments are closed