a 'mooh' point

clearly an IBM drone

BRM resolution documents now available

The BRM resolution documents are now publically available from the JTC1-SC34 website.

Take a look at them on




Patrick Durusau supports approval of DIS 29500

Now, this is one of the times where I realize that all of us supporting OOXML in ISO are not complete morons ... even though it is the point of view of many of the participants. Patrick Durusau has now openly stated his position on OOXML in ISO, which is: Welcome to the party!

I am sure everyone supporting OOXML in ISO will run around in the next days chearing their heads of ... and that the anti-OOXML-wolf-pack will do the same ... but more in the way of "chicken without a head".

Please read the statement from Patrick Durusau yourself - let me just make this small quote:

That point of agreement is that everyone at the table was heard. That may not seem like a lot to an Oracle or IBM, but name the last time Microsoft was listening to everyone in a public and international forum? At a table where a standard for a future product was being debated by non-Microsoft groups?


T-Shirts for everyone

On the last day of the BRM I posted an image emailed to me during the very last minutes of the meeting. This image has now made it to CaféPress. Now this's one for the beaches this summer!

Check it out ... 


Update 2008-03-23:

If you have pictures - please send them to me ... I'll post them here.


(notice sticker) 

BRM aftermath

Sitting in the airport in Geneva waiting for my home-bound fight I finally have a couple of hours to do nothing but reflect on what happened through last week.

It truly has been a magnificent week. About 120 people from a bit more than 35 countries from around the world participated in the technical discussion in improving the OOXML-spec (DIS 25000). It was a monstrous task and I think we all felt a bit nervous on the first day – at least I can see Tim Bray was as nervous as I. The task at hand – to reach consensus on the 1000 odd responses from ECMA – was an impossible task given the 5 working days we had, so I was anxious to find out what the convener Alex Brown had up his sleeve. We, the delegates at the BRM, have naturally been talking a great deal in the corridors between sessions, in the hotel lobbies and everywhere else we got together about how to solve this “Gordian knot” and countless emails have been exchanged between us about this very subject. We have also talked a lot about this afterwards and have tried to do some evaluations on the process chosen by the BRM. It is always nice to do this – hind-sight is 20/20-vision.


Let me also note that I was deeply impressed about the technical level of the delegates. We had some really good and in-depth discussions during the week. Countries that particularly impressed me were Canada, UK, USA, Germany, Israel and The Czech Republic. I appologize to those I forgot.

I think the process chosen was the best process given the circumstances. All alternatives were in my opinion worse than the one chosen – and I think it is important to emphasize that the process was chosen by the BRM and not chosen for the BRM. The way the BRM works is normally this: When a DIS fails it is evaluated if the countries voting had a desire to approve the specification – but that they didn’t feel the specification was good enough. If this is the case a BRM is scheduled and the purpose of the BRM is to improve the specification so that the countries can change their vote from “No” to “Yes” (or any other way). The result of the BRM is a list of improvements or changes to the DIS. These improvements have to be presented and approved (preferably by consensus) by the BRM itself. So the rules governing the BRM essentially meant this: If a piece of text is not presented to the BRM, it cannot get approved and hence incorporated into the failed DIS. A side note is that at the BRM the member-status of SC34 does not count, so O-members are not treated differently than P-members (at least that was my understanding).

When talking to the other delegates we more or less agreed that the number of Responses not dealt with would be something in the area of 800-850 in total. So we basically had two choices:

  • Do nothing
  • Do something

The BRM chose to do something. We didn’t all agree to what to do and as it has been reported all over the blog-sphere, most parts of a whole day was spent discussing what to do. I think most of the delegates disliked the position we were put in – but regardless of this we were in this situation whether we liked it or not. We had to do something.

That “something” was to do a vote on each of the remaining responses from ECMA. It was not a bulk-vote as reported on various sites – it was a vote on each and every single response.

I will not comment on what individual countries (including my own) voted and their reasons for it, but it seemed to be from discussing this, that the various reasons given for a specific vote fell into these categories:

  • We think the responses from ECMA are generally an improvement to the DIS and therefore we approve all responses not dealt with during the BRM
  • As a principle we cannot do anything but disapprove responses that have not been dealt with
  • We think the BRM is about reaching consensus and this vote bypasses this process and we therefore disapprove  all responses we haven’t dealt with
  • We will vote “yes” or “no” to those responses we have a qualified opinion about and we will abstain on the rest. This effectively means that the “fate” of these responses is left to those countries that actually have an opinion on them
  • We don’t want to participate in this vote at all

… and the rest, as they say, is history.


Within minutes of after Friday 29th of February at 17:00 rumors started to flow that “The BRM failed” or “ISO failed”. I honestly disagree to this. We were facing an impossible task but we dealt with it according to the purpose of the BRM: To change and improve the DIS. There is really nothing more to say about it. Now the national bodies can sit down and look at the result of the BRM and see if the DIS is now in a position to be approved. That process has always been aside to the BRM itself and whatever was voted on and how the votes were distributed is really not relevant in terms of approving the DIS. The DIS is now what it is and that is what is to be decided 29 days from now.

And now for a few quotes from inside the BRM:

“We need a precise definition of inaccuracy”

“The <country omitted> would like to note that there are actually ‘normal’ people that don’t speak English natively”

“Convener: <country omitted>, you had a comment?
Country: I have absolutely no idea“


(and now my plane is delayed for at least two hours)

Namedropping in Geneva

So - that was it ... it really was. The BRM ended a bit less than an hour ago and I am now back at my hotel. I have previously been accused of name-dropping too much, but I'm glad to be able to say, that I have now been name-dropped. At least Dough Mahugh was kind enough to mention me yesterday before rambling about burning his suit. It has been a pleasure to work with all these 120 people frm 37 countries in the last week and it has been great to finally get to meet Rob Weir, Tim Bray, Charlez H. Schultz (who attended the OFE-meetings down-stairs) and of course Alex Brown.

I will be back with more info lter this weekend ... when I am no longer as sleep-deprived as now.


I love BRM



Thanks to the Portugeese delegation Smile

Standards and dining

I just wanted to share with you a sign we noticed at the bistro we dined at yesterday.


Se my Google map.


And we have lift-off (white noise)

It is only a matter of minutes until the BRM starts here in Geneva. It will be a tough week here with long meetings during the day and preparation in the evening (good bye Red Light District!). So to be able to concentrate fully on the task at hand, I will shut down this blog for the  week ... but don't worry - I'll be back soon.


Santa Claus is coming to town

Now there are only a few days until I jump on a plane and head South to Switzerland, Geneva for the ISO/IEC SC34 Ballot Resolution Group Meeting, amongst laymen known primarily as "The BRM meeting". I cannot get my head around if I am exited or worried about the outcome of the meeting ... thinking primarily about the enormous workload expecting us down there. We will have to work through about 1000 unique disposition of comments from ISO/IEC editor Rex - scattered over about 3500 comments in total. It's a daunting task indeed - not least for BRM convenor Alex Brown from BSI UK. Adding to this workload is the small addition, that we will be 120 delegates dealing with it. It truly is breath-taking and I cannot help but feel like a mountain-climber standing at the foot of Mount Everest waiting to start the journey upwards. I expect the days to be work in the BRM meeting during normal work hours and work in the evening at the hotel sifting through the results of the day preparing for the next.

I am also thinking quite a bit on what will actually take place in Geneva at the meetings. As I understand the ISO rules (and please note, I have been wrong before), after the BRM is done, the standard to approve is the original submission with the changes made in Geneva. In other words - if not a single disposition can be agreed upon, the standard stands as it did when it was submitted in Spring 2007. I really hope that the delegates opposing OOXML do not try to paralyze the BRM with a massive DOS-attack on the process. As Alex Brown points out, it is the responsibility of the Head of Delegations (HoD) that this does not happen, and if I look at what we have been informed by the Danish HoD, it is clear to me, that they actually have a lot of future credibility in standards work vested in this. If they are not able to perform in an ordily manner at the BRM, their influence in all the other work they are doing will be diminished. I hope this will keep the lid on most of the fanatic out-bursts.

I am also looking forward to meeting some of the people I met in Kyoto in December 2007. Of course it is always nice to talk to people you agree with, but I sometimes get a bit bored with the "echo-chamber"-feeling of spending too much time with people of your own opinion. So I am even more looking forward to conversations with the delegates (and, yes, even the people of Open Forum Europe, who I have been told will be cheering us along in the corridors of the meeting) who are a bit more on the negative side of DIS 29500. It will be interesting to see what they think.

OOh ... and on Saturday I will go see Dinosaurs

Wanna join? 


Første kommentarer fra ISO/IEC

Det er pudsigt som man kan have ret. I forgårs (18. november 2007) kom de første rettelser fra ISO/IEC. De har udsendt svarende på i alt 19% af det samlede antal. Deres pressemeddelelse kan ses på ECMAs hjemmeside, hvor den kan studeres nærmere. I korte træk er ISO/IEC-editor Rex Jaeschke begyndt at sende de første rettelser ud. Det sker via et website, hvor de enkelte nationale standardiseringsråd har mulighed for at hente rettelserne til deres forslag. Jeg ved ikke, om fx det franske standardiseringsråd har adgang til rettelserne til de danske, men foreløbigt ser det ud til, at det bliver tilfældet. Indholdet på Hjemmesiden er kun tilgængeligt for de enkelte NB'er (nationale råd), men ifølge Microsofts Brian Jones skyldes det ISO-regler, hvor der specificeres, at kommentarer til forslag og svar på disse er et anliggende imellem ISO og de enkelte lande. I Danmark er Dansk Standard og arbejdet i det underlagt nogle begrænsninger i forhold til fortrolighed, så her skal man nok ikke vente for meget information til at begynde med - men så vidt jeg ved er det diametralt modsat i den engelske pendant til Dansk Standard, så måske skulle man holde øje med de informationer, der kommer ud derfra. Eller - deres regler er ret meget lig de danske, men de har valgt en anden tilgangsvinkel i forhold til arbejdet med OOXML, hvor de bla. har anvendt Wiki'er til at indsamle information, og de har også offentliggjort deres kommentarer til DIS 29500 ligesom vi har gjort i Danmark. Igen er valget af format faldet på en wiki.

Jeg har tidligere refereret til ordsproget "May you live in interesting times" ... og mon ikke de er på vej igen?